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Washing the Brainwash

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By Agnes ~

Hello. I have recently been able to say [with my own voice that I have recently developed for the first time] that I am not a christian, and I have searched for a place like this for support.

Sorry We are Closed
Image by Sand Creation via Flickr
I was born into a Lutheran family, and attended my Lutheran school/church for 6 days a week, for the first 14 years of my life. This adds up to 4,032 days of my life, not including minor exceptions for Saturday church events. I blossomed at this place, from sitting in Sunday school at age 7 contemplating my existence while everyone else sang "Go Tell it on the Mountain", to wondering what happens to Ethiopian children after death while my 7th teacher talks about hell.

I have a deep love for nostalgia; Despite the beautiful and deceptive memories I have of "fellowship", and of my "faith walk", I have realized that I was born into a family with a mind that is incapable of working like theirs. I realize now, looking back at my youth group events, camps, school days, fundraisers, chapel services, etc. that I was always, always contradicted in the back of my head with my natural feelings. This was all between the ages of 0 and 14 with me, so as I was having feelings of discomfort and disbelief, I was still able to convince myself that they were "wrong" and brainwash myself into believe that I believe (if that makes sense) for the sake of having the all around secure feeling of pleasing my "God" and living "forever".

This severely delayed my development of a voice, a conscience, a personality, and mind, interests, knowledge, talents, a self.

This also caused a severe self destruction in my young female life, being around males who view me as a possession, a project, rather than a human.

For the past 3 years, I have been constantly exposing myself to everything I was kept from. Sci-fi movies, the world of folklore, christian theology, the science behind homosexuality, anything I'm interested in that I was never able to learn about.

I have also read about the history of the bible to the point that I understand why my family is brainwashed, and it hurts me.

I am 21 years old and in love with my boyfriend of 2 years (we're both spiritualists, and agree that we are no one to say what that concept of god even is). I have been living with him and his family for about a year, and plan to soon move into an apartment with him and 3 others, (all boys, they're our friends). It's just the most logical way to live until we're out of school, in order to save money, etc.

My mom, being a christian, is surprisingly supportive because she understands that I'm an adult and should be able to make my own choices without guilt. My dad is the opposite, and continues to guilt me and cry and claim that I'm not the daughter he raised, when, in all reality, I am, I've just developed a belief system of my own that is different.

I have studied enough to understand that the concept of abstinence in the bible rooted from the need for growth of religion, and the reliance of family structure in order to make that happen. Same with homosexuality, reproduction needed to happen for the growth of religion in that time. There is an explanation for everything, every "rule" written in the bible and it saddens me that people have come to the point that they think they will go to hell if they fail to follow.

It saddens me even more that people will use what it says to manipulate others to live a morally acceptable life in their eyes.

Part of me feels that humans already knew how terrible of a species we were back then to the point that they made this system, this "hell" and these "commandments" and these stories only to control the future of the human species. (just a thought)

Anyways, I can't really label myself anything. I like to say I am a spiritualist but my logic overpowers it most of the time. Except in the winter. I just love nature, and doing what is healthy. No, I don't sleep around, or do drugs, or self destruct, or hate nice Christians, I'm just tired of the brainwashing. I just want to live healthily and happily with no one telling me that I have to write on a paper and have witnesses that I'm married before I can make love to the person I'm utterly in love with. I want people who experience feelings for someone of the same sex to be able to express them because yes, I understand it's against the natural order of reproduction, but it is not against natural order itself because it obviously happens.

Life is never meant to be structured and fundamental, it is never supposed to be that simple, and I feel for those for are missing out on precious time to be free.

"god has a voice, he speaks through me,
god has a voice she speaks through me"
-cocorosie

Diseased by Religion

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By tothemorning (formerly known as HickoryGrove)

My journey began 30 yrs. ago at the tender age of 14. An invite to a youth service resulting in a trip to the alter where I repented of the evil that I was and accepted man's defined plan of God's salvation. Here in this Assembly of God Church the process began...an indoctrination of guilt ridden salvation that left scar tissue. Through all the traumatizing years my young but mature mind would rationalize the Godly leaders immoral self-serving leadership by passing it off as being part of the human-factor. My only desire was to have a heart after God's own heart: to serve him in a most excellent way. But the years of a heart burning with a fire of pure sincerity for God was finally blown out by the winds of truth and deception. The following is a simple time line of incidents that finally took their toll and lead me to freedom. Here we go...

Following my salvation I became very involved in the youth ministry. The main theme that the youth pastor seemed to preach on was the sins of the flesh. At youth camp in Humble, TX guys and girls were separated for morning teaching services. It was during these services that the sin of masturbation was preached with wild-fire to us sinful boys. Guilt and shame was the prescription of the day. (What a way to jack-up a teens mind while they have yet to establish their adult identity). It is my firm belief that these preachers are culpable and should be held criminally and civilly accountable for their gross religious ideologies that they inject into young people's minds; it is truly abusive.

"The pain of the Spirit" Following high school I attended an Assemblies of God College. Being "caught up in the spirit" was the goal of every daily chapel service. During a service over a hundred babbling tongue talkers were either convulsing "in the spirit" or rolling on the ground in an uncontrollable manner after having been slain in the spirit. This experience was always referred to as receiving an "extra blessing". To receive this extra-blessing was to denote that the receiver was closer to God than the others who were still sitting in the pews. Definitely a feeling of spiritual superiority was derived from this extra-blessing. As I would sit through these services in a reserved manner (rationalizing that I was worshipping in spirit and in truth) students would come to me and encourage me to go to the front (the alter) and receive a "blessing." I would respectfully say that I was o.k. and would continue to assess all the hoopla while trying to focus on "God". During one chapel service a student who was in front of his pew was jumping up and down in a hyper-erratic manner. He slipped, his legs went out from under him and the middle of his back struck the wooden backrest of the pew. He went to the floor for the ten count. I watched carefully and then determined to render aid. As I began my approach to him, he slowly stood to his feet and walked out of the service...head hung low with a look of disillusionment and pain on his face. I couldn't help but observe all the other pseudo-spiritual self-absorbed lemmings caught up in their own moment not to notice their brother who took such a bad fall. I then knew something was not right...but my pursuit for God continued.

My perfect hearing has now been healed: One Wednesday evening my college friends and I went to the evening service of the Assembly of God church that was around the corner from the college. There was a visiting evangelist. He preached and attempted to stir the emotions of the listeners with his sensationalism. This is what they call "The move of the spirit" or "Feeling the presence of the Lord". He also had a "word of knowledge". As he walked down the center aisle he spotted me...pointed at me and called me out to the aisle. He then proclaimed to all that I had been partially deaf since I was baby. (This was news to me.) I then began to say, " Excuse me sir I am not deaf". By the time I said "not deaf", with a look of astonishment he overpowered me with his voice and declared me to be healed in the name of Jesus while pushing my forehead with his healing hand. He then immediately began to walk backwards away from me and compelled the congregants to praise the Lord for my healing. The praise party then began in pseudo-spiritual splendor...all for what the Lord had just done for me. I remember it like it was yesterday...standing there in those people's midst thinking "what is going on in here?" I was in shock and awe over the manipulation and deception that this man was performing. After pondering, I made biblical concessions for this man's bad behavior.

Reflecting on all my incidents reveals to me that rationalizing people's bad behaviors was a coping mechanism. It was a needed one to survive in the only environment that I knew. At that time, I had no confidants other than the foolish.

First youth pastorate at the age of 20. Strike one: One Sunday morning in Dallas TX I was turning on the lights of the church at the Assembly of God church when the pastor walked up to me, greeted me and then asked me, "So what did you do last night?" I replied that my girlfriend and I went out for dinner. He elbowed me playfully and asked "So did you getcha any?" I just looked at him shocked and said "Excuse me?" I knew something was not right. Strike two: Following one service there was a get-together at his house. His house was adorned with thousands of dollars of furnishings much of which was gold or at least gold in color. He pulled me aside, referenced his high dollar furnishings and told me so proudly that if I followed his lead that I too could have all that he had. I knew something was not right. Yet my pursuit continued. I left this position out of consciousness. Strike three: Upon leaving this position the pastor called me a thief for accepting a salary (for pastoral services rendered). He then chuckled and told me that the elders had been placing bets as to whether or not I would make it as a pastor. This revelation only confirmed that my decision to leave was the right one.

Following a hard break-up with my girlfriend I returned to my home town in Tyler Tx for the summer. She called me a month later wanting me to go visit her for the weekend. I did. We rekindled our relationship on that Fri and Sat and then on Sunday morning I attended her A of G church with her. Following the service, she and her pastor were across the sanctuary from me and were in a quiet conversation with one another. I felt uncomfortable as they were discreetly glancing at me. She finished her conversation with him and came to me. I asked her if all was ok. She looked and acted as though she was without thoughts. (Come to find out, she was not allowed to think for herself.) We then went out to eat with her mother and siblings (as all good Christians do). Before going into the restaurant she told me that her pastor had advised her that God gave him a word of knowledge that I was not the one for her and a spiritual darkness and for her to be with me was an invite for a life of pain. I was totally disillusioned and disturbed by such a statement made against me. (I knew something was not right about this pseudo-realm that I was dwelling in). Following lunch we returned back to her house and she then told me that I needed to leave. I then retrieved my overnight bag, got in my car and drove away...once again in pain...never to see her again...holding on to my faith, with a hurt and pissed-off attitude...in my pursuit of God.

Fast forward: 2nd Youth Pastor Position at age 30. Inner turmoil amongst the leadership of the church, pastor allegedly having an affair. Two adult leaders get into a fist fight while chaperoning at a Petra concert. The church ultimately collapsed and no longer exists.

Still holding on...

One last shot: Approximately 7yrs ago I went to a church that was breaking-ground in the community. Here I would see if there was a place for me to serve. I met the pastor and we talked for about two hours. He then told me that it was God's will that I accept the associate pastor position of the church. During our conversation he told me that he was the only voice of God in the church and that all leaders would heed his words. He then shared with me the many miracles that God worked through him such as a 10 yr. old child that levitated by the power of the Holy Ghost. I then respectfully got the hell out of there.

Over the past 5 years I have processed my religious journey and have seen where this dogma and experiences have dynamically effected my life in such a negative manner. I am now partially released from the burden of this horrible weight. I guess you can now say I am no longer spiritually oppressed. (Sound familiar anyone?) Brian Tracy says we are all responsible for everything we think and do. Because of this new outlook I can have and be anything I want to be. People...religion is not a crutch...it is an injury.

The aforementioned are experiences that played a part in my release. My journey is not dictated by these experiences alone. (Believe me there is a lot more I could share.) There is also the intellectual assessment of the unexplainable and the non-sensible part of religions that led to my escape.

My journey now continues for my family and those I care about...not just for me.

My Past Problem with Salvation

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By Paul So ~

I’m not sure if everyone had this experience, but in my deconversion story Discordance and my other article Problem with Repentance, I pointed out that the main reason why I abandoned Christianity is I could not really know whether or not I’m saved, I can only believe that I am saved. Now, I understand that this is not sufficient to undermine Christianity but I would say that it has lead me to question whether any of this is true; Because atonement, for me at the time, was one of the main foundational pillars of Christianity, questioning atonement was really a hard blow on my faith. I would like to treat this essay (or article) as a sub-story of my deconversion. I find this to be very important part of why I deconverted but I want to make several things clear.

First, this deconversion was strictly from being a Christian to being an agnostic deist (with nihilistic tendencies); in other words, I cannot prove that God exists but at the time I thought God’s existence was the only explanation for why the world (including morality) exists. Second, even if I am wrong about my views on salvation I don’t see this as a problem since as I grew up I matured intellectually and philosophically to the point that I understand that there are more problems with Christianity than I was previously aware of, so even if my problem with Christianity is not warranted I wouldn’t see this as a reason to return to Christianity. The main reason why I mention this is because I was worried that if I was wrong about this then I have to become a Christian but I realize how ridiculous this is; I have many more reasons, and even if I had none, I still would have no reason to believe in Christianity to begin with.

With these in mind, I would like to explain what my problem with salvation is from the perspective of the seventeen year old with some more sophisticated college student interpretation that stays faithful to the spirit of the problem. When I was seventeen years old I really wanted to be saved and I was extremely scared of the fact that I might have committed blasphemy against the holy spirit. Because the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was a very vague sin I quickly assumed that I could have committed it without understanding what it was (I currently see it as very vague). This has motivated me to understand how salvation works so I begin to read several devotional books and some important passages from the bible. However, overtime, I realize that I cannot know that I am saved for the following reasons.

First, the books of Romans said that nobody can be repentant except through God, which made me think that somehow I cannot be repentant on my own so I must somehow communicate with God in order to become repentant. But this idea made no sense to my seventeen year old mind at all. While it still does not make any sense to me, my seventeen year old mind just could not pin down why there this idea was so incoherent and nonsensical. It was only after a couple years later when I read the Biography of Immanuel Kant who complained that “repenting that you are not repentant enough so God can make you repentant through the Holy Spirit.” After reading that passage it made so much sense to me why it made no sense at all! If you cannot be repentant without God to begin with, then how can you be repentant for not being repentant enough? If God made you repentant then doesn’t that imply that somehow this cannot be your fault for being incapable of being repentant? I mean, the airplane barely lifts off the ground to fly, so why blame the pilot for not being a qualified pilot? It just made no sense to me.

The whole point about salvation is to believe that you are saved because you believe. Second, how do I know that I am saved? This perplexed my seventeen year old mind for quite a while. I just could not know how I am saved; which part of my personal experiences (or clusters of my personal experiences) are indicative that I am saved? People suggested to me that if I had the experience then I would know, but then I asked myself “but what if that I am wrong to believe that personal experience means that I am saved?”. I mean isn’t that possible? Isn’t it possible that either the devil made you think that way or that you unconsciously self-deceived yourself to believe that way? At the time that’s what I thought: I just could not rule out other explanations that say that I am not saved.

I think the second problem then leads to the third problem: The whole point about salvation is to believe that you are saved because you believe. This is the point that the books of Romans make, but somehow it just didn’t work for me; it didn’t convince me. The reason being is that I can believe that I am saved, but is that belief true? How do I know that it’s true? Is it because of emotions or spiritual experiences? If so, which ones? How do I know which one of these experiences indicates that I am saved? The only answer I got from most Christians was “Stop thinking too much, just have faith!” Well, I couldn’t. I couldn’t just believe I find it too difficult because it doesn’t answer my question: How do I know?

Eventually this became an emotional problem which leads me to abandon Christianity but never lead me to abandon the existence of God until two years ago. I look back at this event wondering to myself if I made the right decision but by reflecting on this I came to the conclusion that even if I’m wrong about my reasoning I still have no reason left to believe in Christianity any better than Islam or Judaism. However I look at this experience positively as an event that lead me to become the kind of person that I am proud to be.

Higher Trails to a Beauty Beyond God

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By Chris Highland ~

I While studying Philosophy at Seattle Pacific ("free" Methodist) University, a wise old professor suggested I thumb through some Nietzsche. My evangelical mind was already stumbling numb from reading Socrates in Greek, and staggering in and out of Confucius, Walt Whitman and Kierkegaard. On the personal side, I was discovering the joys of (sinful) sex while attending a "house church" led by a Jews for Jesus-type friend and paling around with some Muslim students. But Nietzsche? Wasn't he the "God is Dead" guy? I quickly found he was much, much more, and I've returned to his writings off and on over the long journey out of faith. At this point I read him now and again during my "meditation" times (my wife knows this means while I'm in the bathroom sanctuary). This morning I came upon more delightfully upsetting lines from Mr. N's little book of pithy sayings called, Human, All Too Human (HATH, 1878). He was very good at the delightfully upsetting stuff. In this passage of troubling truthtelling he is discussing a "Substitute for Religion." He says that some want to simply replace Religion with Philosophy, but the move from religious to scientific thinking can be a "dangerous leap" and actually "inadvisable." The leap, that is. But, he reasons, "transitional spheres of thought" are necessary sometimes. His suggestion? Art. To move out of religious ideas that "originate only from errors of reason," a person needs a little help, a bridge, an alternative path that isn't some dramatic leap of un-faith (as opposed to Kierkegaard's famous leap of faith).
 "It is preferable to use art for this transition. . . . Beginning with art, one can more easily move on to a truly liberating philosophical science" (HATH, 27).

That's a taste of Mr. N. And here I make an incredibly wild connection to one of Friedrich's Scottish-American contemporaries who led my final exit from faith. Not a philosopher; not an atheist; not an artist. A Mr. M. . . .Muir. . . .John Muir. A fine freethinking trail guide for the wild journey out of "foggy city thinking" to the great wide open, fresh air artwork of Nature. I'm wrong, though. Muir was indeed an artist--with words. No one could tell a story or use his lips to paint a picture quite like the Mountain Man Muir. His fantastic tales of climbing cliffs and trees, of riding avalanches and facing bears, whispering to flowers and singing with birds, all were shaped into stories to inspire generations of people to get involved, to participate, to care for the Chapel of the Cosmos. As I like to say, we are each, as humans made of humus with a pinch of humor (for fertilizer?), called to be Nature Chaplains--whatever that means. We need to discover what that means.

Whether sleeping in a cemetery in Georgia or sleeping on a blanket in the sierra snow with Teddy Roosevelt, Muir was truly crazy. . .crazy in love with the earth and everything earthly. And his words, his art, changed things. Politicians got agitated. National Parks were created. He didn't distract people to other worlds, to the fancies and fantasies of faith. He, like Thoreau, had no interest in the inventions of heavens, some imagined above, beyond, behind the universe. Nature was heaven enough, religion enough, scripture enough. Muir's was not a super-natural faith. His was an all-natural, organic, crunchy and biodegradable trust that Life itself was super enough.

Here are a few elements of Muir's "faith" as I see it:
  1. A light but serious belief that beliefs are distractions from the simple and most wonderful gifts of life
  2. A full-out belly-flop baptism in the beauty of Nature
  3. A pure, endless delight in the world, the cosmos, all that is and can be explored
  4.  A student's heart to "sit on Nature's knee" and learn from the Greatest Teacher
  5. An evangelical enthusiasm to convert the masses to preserving the only home we share with each other and all other wild life

How did he preach this wild gospel (a kind of anti-gospel)? From the pulpit of the forests and mountains. "I care to live only to entice people to look at Nature's loveliness" (Wilderness Essays). Though he memorized the Bible as a boy, his scripture was written along the ridge-lines and recited in the waterfalls. Was Muir a Pantheist? Maybe. Did he believe in God? Yes, with a radical (literally rooted and grounded) twist. "No synonym for God is so perfect as Beauty" (Journals). When we look at the world more closely, more reverently if you will, we "behold a new heaven and new earth and are born again, as if we had gone on a pilgrimage to some far-off holy land" (Journals). This bearded incarnation of Thoreau's "saunterer" felt that every step in the wilderness left a bootprint on sacred ground.

Muir, like Nietzsche (strange to say), gave us hints, pointed the way down the paths to a way, a truth, a life, greater than anything Religion has ever offered. Is there a Creator? Of course there is: Nature. Is there a Paradise? Look around. Heaven is under our feet (and stuck on our shoe!). Is there a cure, a salvation, for our humanity? Only being more human. Is there anything left after faith is left behind? Only countless trails to be discovered, explored, wandered by every wanderer with a pack full of wonder (and the adventure reaches from our body and brain to the farthest point of light in space).

Now, before I head off down another deer trail into the unknown, here's an old, wrinkled map left by the crazy artist Muir:

"Go now and then for fresh life--if most of humanity must go through this town stage of development--just as divers hold their breath and come ever and anon to the surface to breathe. . . . Go whether or not you have faith. . . . Form parties, if you must be social, to go to the snow-flowers in winter, to the sun-flowers in summer. . . . Anyway, go up and away for life; be fleet!" (Journals)

Can you think of a better benediction?


Chris Highland
(former Presbyterian Minister; former Interfaith Chaplain; author of Life After Faith, Jesus and John Muir, and other works. www.naturetemple.wordpress.com)

Website: http://www.chrishighland.wordpress.com

Ignorance Begets Confidence - the Dunning-Kruger Effect

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By WizenedSage (Galen Rose) ~

The Dunning-Kruger Effect, which I had never heard of, was mentioned recently on this site in a comment by Jim Jones. So, I investigated, and found a fascinating scientific insight into the mind of the typical Christian. As it turns out, the reason most Christians are so difficult to budge from their religious views is because they know so little about their religion. This may seem counter-intuitive, but this is the essence of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, discovered and described by psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, both then of Cornell University, in a 1999 paper titled: "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments."

The D-K Effect was frequently suggested historically, notably by Charles Darwin -

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

– and Bertrand Russell -

"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."
In a series of studies, Dunning and Kruger found this pattern across many skills, including reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis. Apparently, those displaying the D-K Effect are so lacking in competence that they are even unaware of their incompetence, thus they tend to overestimate their level of skill and fail to recognize skill in others. Conversely, people with high levels of skill or knowledge tend to underestimate their standing relative to others. It seems that the more one knows, the more he realizes how little he knows.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, Dunning and Kruger also found the Effect operative in broad tests of logical reasoning skills.

The D-K Effect goes a long way toward explaining why those with the least competence in their religion are the most sure they are right about it. Similarly, those who know the least about science are the most certain that it has nothing important to say about how the world works. And, in general, those who are the least adept at critical thinking are the most confident they have the answers.

But do Christians really lack competence in their religion? One way to measure this would be to measure their knowledge of the Bible, relative to other groups. This has been done, and the results - confirming the D-K Effect - should be shocking to Christians. The Pew Research Center’s US Religious Knowledge Survey of 2010 reported that atheists and agnostics were the most knowledgeable on the Bible, followed closely by Muslims and Jews, with Protestants and Catholics trailing far behind.

Further, while nearly 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians, Time magazine observed in a 2007 cover story that only half of U.S. adults could name even one of the four Gospels, and fewer than half could identify Genesis as the Bible's first book. Obviously, most Christians have scant knowledge of even the basics of their own religion. Or, as George Gallup Jr. and Jim Castelli said in a widely quoted survey finding, "Americans revere the Bible but, by and large, they don't read it."

While nearly 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians, Time magazine observed in a 2007 cover story that only half of U.S. adults could name even one of the four Gospels, and fewer than half could identify Genesis as the Bible's first book. This helps explain why debating religion with the typical Christian generally becomes frustrating very quickly. His knowledge of the Bible and critical thinking skills are usually severely limited. BUT HE FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THIS! And that is the message of the D-K Effect.

Those who do begin to question religion quickly come across troubling logic problems, such as, if Satan is evil and harmful to man’s best interests, why does god allow him to exist? Or, if Adam and Eve weren’t meant to eat the fruit of that tree in the Garden of Eden, then what was it doing there? Or, why was the punishment of Adam and Eve (and all of their descendants) so harsh, for their first (and possibly only) mistake? Or, if the Garden of Eden “fall of man” story was just metaphor, then what need is there for a redeemer? These things seem so obviously illogical that one begins to doubt his competency. Surely, anyone could see that these things don’t make sense, so the problem must be my misunderstanding. Reflecting the D-K Effect, once we realize we don’t have all the answers we begin to doubt our competency.

“The quintessential emblem of religion – and the clearest manifestation of the perversity that lies at its core – is the sacrifice of a child by its parent.”

This is a paraphrase of Lucretius. He wasn’t speaking of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ because this was written in pre-Christian times. Yet, this statement is so obviously true that if it occurs to a believer, he immediately questions his own critical thinking competency and may push the problem into the “Mystery of God” pseudo-answer.

Historically, Christians have been routinely advised not to question the Bible or preachers too much. In fact, the Catholic Church attempted to suppress the first complete English translation of the Latin Bible in the early 15th century. Similarly, the Council of Valencia and the Council of Trent forbade letting people have a Bible in their own language and reading it for themselves. Clement XI also issued a papal bull against Bible reading. Perhaps these Church leaders suspected that the Bible wouldn’t stand much scrutiny by educated readers.

But shouldn’t this be a red flag? Why don’t they want us to learn more about this religion? I am reminded of the Carfax TV ad where the salesman keeps changing the subject rather than producing the Carfax. Shouldn’t any normal person be suspicious? But, no, they claim faith is the most important thing; that is, believing without - or even despite - any evidence. Paul of Tarsus said, “Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?” (1 Corinthians 1: 17) And Augustine went even further, all the way to absurdity: “There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and man should not wish to learn.”

But isn’t it obvious that the only people who fear knowledge are those who are on the wrong side of it? And hasn’t history proven Augustine totally wrong on this issue? Think of all we have learned about how the world works since Augustine’s time, thanks to our curiosity – from physics, biology, psychology and medicine, to central heating and the flush toilet. How incredibly ignorant must one be to exalt ignorance? And yet this is what the Bible authors did, and what modern priests and pastors do all the time. They tell you to “just have faith,” to “trust in faith,” and even to ”work on your faith.” Does this differ significantly from telling one to “just stay stupid?”

This is apparently the toughest hurdle that one must get past to free his brain from religious authority; to accept that questions are good and ignorance is not, that evidence matters, and that faith is really a cop out since it requires no evidence and even intentionally ignores it. After all, no amount of belief makes something a fact.

We see the Dunning–Kruger effect very clearly in the debate on evolution versus intelligent design. Those who know the least about evolution are the most certain that it is false. Yet, there is only one major scientific theory on the origin of species because it has passed test after test. The only alternative is based on religion, and specifically on the claims of ancient texts written by primitive men in a pre-scientific age. If the evidence for any single religion was as thoroughly tested and conclusive, then there would only be one religion. As it stands, however, there are still hundreds of different active religions in the world simply because none of their proponents can prove anything of significance about them. (I once had a bumper sticker that read, “Science is knowledge. Religion is opinion.”)

The beliefs of our peers are extremely important and can help us get past this feeling of incompetence as we begin to question standard religious beliefs. A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under. Apparently, the word is spreading rapidly in this age cohort. Similarly, the trend away from religious observance in Europe may be accelerating.

Also, the Clergy Project’s rapid growth from 52 to over 200 since its creation just last year suggests a potentially influential anti-theism movement has been unleashed in America. These are educated priests, pastors, etc., who have questioned deeply and still came to the conclusion that the dogma is false. Doesn’t the existence of large and growing numbers of such religious experts leaving the fold suggest that they may be onto something? This is paralleled by recent surveys that show religiosity in America is inversely correlated with educational attainment.

Christianity survives, in part, by imparting fear in its inductees; fear of hell and fear of an empty, meaningless life. However, a simple reading of a few de-conversion stories on ExChristian.net puts the lie to this teaching. The majority of those leaving Christianity report feelings of increased happiness, and a loss of guilt and fear. A great many of these people report that investigating their doubts, especially with respect to the Bible, was the first step toward a better life. And, as the Dunning-Kruger Effect has demonstrated, their doubts were a sign of their increasing religious competence.

My Journey in Religion

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by Andrew A ~

Since I was a kid religion has played a very prominent role in my life and has ever since. When I was about 10 years old my mother and father had me go to Sunday School in a Baptist Church. I went till I was in high school then I sort of dropped it, my attendance waned and I stopped going. In high school I adopted my dad's religion, he is from the Church of God group, a break off from Armstrongism. I went there until I was around 30 then I dropped that as well. The only reason I went there, looking back at it, was because of my dad, and I wanted somewhere to belong. I liked the idea of the one true Church and the idea I thought I could prove it.

In my early 30s I became Catholic because I wanted to be part of the one “true Church”, the historical Church. I was there for essentially less than 2 years. I wanted to go back but so many problems for me occurred, the rigorous standards as well, not to mention I had difficulties in overcoming certain “sins”. I vacillated back and forth for a few years but I couldn't stay with the doubts I had in my mind and heart. I started seeing as well that many of the truth claims of the church seemed to be able to be successfully challenged by other Christians like the Reformed or the Orthodox. I never knew enough history to know exactly if the historical counter claims were true. If something is “so clear” then why can it be challenged with such ease? The debates on these issues still rage on between different communions, but we are told by all three major communions that the evidence is so “clear” for their side.

In these recent years I also started critically thinking of science vs faith issues. Why for example did the Bible seem to indicate that the earth is less than 10,000 years old? Science has long since proved that the earth is billions of years old, they know this through the many different dating methods that they have today. I know Christians will object with various scripture verses and other claims that science is wrongly interpreting the evidence. This however seems to me to just be arrogance of the foolish sort, how can a person who is not a scientist even comment on science and the examination of the material world? The only way to rightly challenge science is to present your data in a peer review journal and let the examination of the counter evidence begin. Religious people do NOT do this, rather they only know how to pick holes in the evidence science presents. Their arguments are based on ignorance and “god of the gaps” argumentation. The major religions of the world never come up with counter scientific theories , like I said they ONLY pick holes and use arguments from ignorance.

There are many examples of the above, here is another example: Noah's ark in the bible. We are told that Noah gathered all the animals and put them on the Ark. If many creationists knew how many species there are and the biological diversity we see in the world, they would wonder just how they could take the account in a literal fashion. Did Noah use snake muzzles to protect himself from the many varieties of poisonous spiders? How did he get the deadly spiders on the Ark that we have in the world like the Sydney Funnel Web Spider? What about bacteria and parasites? How did the animals get redistributed all around the world once the flood was over? Things like this puzzle me and I have a million questions and yet you can’t get consistent answers from Christians in any communion. They all seem to contradict one another.

One thing I have learned from my examination of these issues is that, if you have the audacity to question anything there will always be believers ready to pronounce you “hell worthy”. The thousands of Christian sects have a nice niche in hell for the groups that contradict their beliefs. Seems very distasteful to me and I hope so as well for any thinking rational person.

Questions from all different angles started “jabbing” me and they have kept piling up for example “Why are there so many different religions in the world? Why are people being condemned to hell for being located in a country opposite to where the “true” religion was established?”. Why for example are Chinese who for the most part are Buddhists, who go about their daily lives, die and then go to Hell because they had a different religion? Christians will come up with answers like “God decreed they would go to Hell”, “God will save all people in time”, “They never had their first chance, they will have an opportunity later”. They will give their bible verses as to why they believe A, B, C and the next Christian will just contradict them and call them a heretic. Some Christians like using other Christians as punching bags as well “they were never saved to begin with”. No one can seem to prove their position is infallibly the true one.

The Catholic church claims infallibility in matters of faith, doctrine and morals and I believed that as well. It sounded so wonderful to be infallibly sure, to have the infallible fuzzies. However when examined the doctrine of infallibility also falls down. In order to come to the place where the convert “to be” actually believes the Catholic church is the one true Church, the convert must use private judgement. This is the very thing Catholics object to in Protestants, who are told they can’t use Scripture alone as the only infallible rule of faith. The Protestants are charged with using their own “private judgement” to interpret Scripture. Ironic that the very claims of the Catholic church, they appeal to Scripture in the various Catechisms. Catholics appeal to Matthew 16:18-20 to prove the authority to bind and loose. Should the Protestant be blamed when he reads the verses and sees that there are different views in Church history? Should the Protestant be blamed when he comes to a different conclusion? He sees that the church appeals to different verses and decides to examine them in context and uses principles of hermeneutics and exegesis, and comes to a different conclusion using private judgement?

When I realized certainty in religion is more or less impossible to achieve, I admit to loosening my grip on Scripture and the belief in God. Interesting that the various religions have apologetics against other religions for example: Judaism now has apologetic websites against Christians and Muslims and so do Muslims against Jews and Christians. They all have claims that they can’t support. If they had a million years to do so. Someone will ALWAYS come around to challenge their truth claims. The debates still rage on to this very day.

Where am I NOW concerning God and the Bible? I have to admit I am not sure. I am not even sure if you can know if a God truly exists, at least with the current knowledge we have at present. I have tried to believe a God exists and cares about us but examination of the world around us seems to be screaming at us a different story. I guess I would have to say that I am in the “half way house” philosophically. Perhaps I can say I am an Agnostic. I am glad though for this journey in life and at times finding things to believe in. However the journey however has not been without its “scars” I have lost things in life because of religion.

I have lost much precious time debating religion and trying to find which one is the true religion. I have spent lots of money buying books and listening to MP3s. Religion has brought me much mental stress in my life as well...there are times I have felt like I was going insane because of all the questions I had and couldn't solve. To this day the religions have not solved them as well. I can only say at this point in my life I am going to live as a rational thinker and as a humanist. I still believe in the ideals of treating our neighbors as we would like to be treated. No religion is needed for that.

I conclude my letter with this from Clarence Darrow:

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure — that is all that agnosticism means.

An agnostic is a doubter. The word is generally applied to those who doubt the verity of accepted religious creeds of faiths. Everyone is an agnostic as to the beliefs or creeds they do not accept. Catholics are agnostic to the Protestant creeds, and the Protestants are agnostic to the Catholic creed. Any one who thinks is an agnostic about something, otherwise he must believe that he is possessed of all knowledge. And the proper place for such a person is in the madhouse or the home for the feeble-minded. In a popular way, in the western world, an agnostic is one who doubts or disbelieves the main tenets of the Christian faith.

I am an agnostic as to the question of God. I think that it is impossible for the human mind to believe in an object or thing unless it can form a mental picture of such object or thing. Since man ceased to worship openly an anthropomorphic God and talked vaguely and not intelligently about some force in the universe, higher than man, that is responsible for the existence of man and the universe, he cannot be said to believe in God. One cannot believe in a force excepting as a force that pervades matter and is not an individual entity. To believe in a thing, an image of the thing must be stamped on the mind. If one is asked if he believes in such an animal as a camel, there immediately arises in his mind an image of the camel. This image has come from experience or knowledge of the animal gathered in some way or other. No such image comes, or can come, with the idea of a God who is described as a force.

To say that God made the universe gives us no explanation of the beginnings of things. If we are told that God made the universe, the question immediately arises: Who made God? Did he always exist, or was there some power back of that? Did he create matter out of nothing, or is his existence coextensive with matter? The problem is still there. What is the origin of it all? If, on the other hand, one says that the universe was not made by God, that it always existed, he has the same difficulty to confront. To say that the universe was here last year, or millions of years ago, does not explain its origin. This is still a mystery. As to the question of the origin of things, man can only wonder and doubt and guess.

Anniversary

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By True Anathema ~

It has been one year now since I let go of my religious beliefs. I realized that the God I worshipped since I was less than three was not real, that he was a figment of my parents' imagination and that I had believed that he was real, but was deceived. At first, I was elated because of the new found freedom. Then came the grief and anger. Next came the anxiety and depression, then an ever present despair.

mirror
Image by geirt.com via Flickr
Since I have attended many churches over the years, breaking with a particular group was not really a problem, but now there is no social construct for me in which to gain a sense of worth or purpose. I continually have to remind myself that my worth comes from within, not from without. The interaction I get now is from a group of freethinkers that is more than one hour away. With a full time job, family, and the price of gas, I obviously don't get to interact with them very much.

My husband and I were joking the other day that we don't have any friends. He has a large family and we interact with two of them. I have yet to meet any one in my area that is not a fundamentalist Christian and have no idea how to. And if I did, our town is so small, there is no way I could be sure that being open with them would not cause me harm with my family and my job.

I have always had problems with OCD and bi-polar disorder with depression, but now have to take anxiety medicine at night and more frequently during the day to function. I have just read an article on Religious Trauma Syndrome and understand this somewhat, but still have a hard time understanding how letting go of an unhealthy belief system could have such negative effects.

My husband knows I have "doubts" and we just don't really talk about it. Neither of us go to church and that's just fine. He has issues with organized religion and we do have that in common.

I am learning to take it slow and read everything I can get my hands on. I can read the bible again for the first time in a year and read from a scholarly and not a devotional perspective. I can watch the Family Guy and not be afraid that I will go to hell for laughing at some extremely blasphemous, but hellishly funny story lines.

This is an anniversary that I am celebrating by myself and for myself. There will be no cards and no cake. No congratulations. No hugs or pats on the back. Just silence. But silence is good. There used to voices in my head.

"You're deceived."

"You can run, but you can't hide from God, that hound of heaven."

"Worldly wisdom is foolishness, hence you're a fool."

"You were created for better things."

Now there's just silence, but silence really is golden. I hope to find peace. Not the peace that passes understanding that the bible promises, but a peace that comes from understanding. Understanding that I'm human. Understanding that I don't have to be perfect. Understanding that I don't need the approval of my family. I can just love them for who they are and that I don't need to confess everything about who I am to them.

I do have one person that knows what this anniversary means to me. He keeps me in good books and mixed drinks. Three cheers for freedom, no matter how slowly it comes.

THE ARGUMENT FROM AUTHORITY: Blowing up cars and raising kids

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By dswrites ~

True story: When I was 15 years old, I bought my first car. I bought it with my own money - every cent of it. I mowed laws, played rock band gigs, babysat—anything to earn money for my car. I had a car before I had a driver's license. It was a 1975 Mustang II. I spent $99 to have a car shop paint it red and spent $19 buying leather dye and changed the half-leather top to black. I loved that car. I still had it as I went to college.

During the winter break, my dad generously said he would pay to get the engine tuned up so I would have it in great working order for my second semester. My college was in a small town 13 hours north of our home, so it was not only a long drive, but without a running car I would have no life at school. So it was important.

Dad had a Spanish-speaking friend of his from church do the repairs, and I stood there as the mechanic explained to Dad (in Spanish) what he did and how what it cost, etc. Probably some other stuff, but my grasp of Spanish at that age was minimal, so I didn't really know what they said. Dad paid the guy, gave me the keys and we drove home. The next day I left for school and Dad tells me as we hug goodbye, "Don't drive over 55 or 60, okay?" I said okay, and left.

You see where this is going. I am eighteen years old, I have a Mustang, and I have a 13-hour stretch of straight highway from Texas to Missouri to traverse.

I exceeded 55 or 60 miles an hour for the majority of Kansas.

In my defense, I obeyed my Dad through all of Texas and Oklahoma. But c'mon. There were no cops, I was the only one on the road. There was no one I was endangering, and 70 miles an hour on a straight stretch on dry pavement was not dangerous. Whatever his concern was, it did not apply here, so I was not really violating the spirit of the reason behind the law, which was to keep me safe. So I did what I did knowing it would be fine.

By car blew up 15 minutes into Missouri.

In January. In deep snow. At 11:30 at night. In the middle of nowhere as far as buildings were concerned. In 1987. In an era will no cellphones. I am stranded. And, I might add, freezing.

I waited an hour for someone to pass and stop and help. They took me to a truck stop where I made the shameful call to my father to ask his advice of what to do. He was livid.

"I TOLD you not to drive over 55 or 60!" he said. (I use the word 'said' out of kindness)

"I thought you just didn't want me speeding and getting a ticket!" I said. "You didn't tell me the car was going to blow up!"

"We spent $400 on the pistons!" he replied. "You have to break them in gently! Brother Bernal told you that!"

"He did not! He told YOU that! And he told you in Spanish. You never said anything to me about the car. You just said not to drive fast. You never said WHY."

We were at an impasse of blame. I felt like I had been under-informed and that led to me not having the chance to make good decisions. He was angry I didn't take him at his word. In his view, it didn't matter what the reason for not driving over 60 was, I had been told not to do it, and therefore this was my fault, and the cost of my disobedience was that I would now have no car for the whole second semester, including Spring Break. That's exactly what happened. It was the most miserable semester of my whole life.

I had a lot of time to think about what happened that semester. I looked at it from all different angles. And do you know what I came up with?

I was totally right and he was totally wrong.

*pause while you laugh*

At an age where I should be learning about the world and how it works, I was given what is commonly called an Argument From Authority. It's the "Because I told you so" method of convincing. "I am the Pope, and I say this is true, therefore this is true."

This is a flawed way to instill a chance for a healthy life in another person.

Example: Your young child reaches up to a hot stove for the first time. You tell them:

1) Don't do that.
2) Don't do that. You will burn your hand.

I hear Arguments From Authority constantly in religion. The problem I have with it is that is leads to situations where a person can be harmed. If the child is not told the stove will burn him, the curiosity of "what will happen if I touch the stove anyway" has not gone away. There is every likelihood that at some point he will see an opportunity to discover the answer for himself, and will be injured.

It is our nature to want to discover answers for ourselves through personal experience.

Why should a teenager not have unprotected premarital sex? If the answer is only "because the Bible and/or my parents say so," that may not be a strong enough reason to prevent an emotional decision in the moment. Despite my parents' teachings, my younger sister became pregnant her senior year of high school in just such a circumstance.

If the answer is, "because I risk having a baby at 19 and all the harsh life-changes that go with that" or "I risk contracting a disease I may never get rid of and possibly even die from," then maybe that factors much more into healthy decision-making, even in the moment at hand and the emotions that are flooding.

When people ask questions of religion and religious commands for living, those questions should be answered for the sake of the health of the person asking. There should be no shame in answering. On the contrary, if the answer is at hand and totally valid, the person in authority should be thrilled to answer—knowing they have doubly addressed the issue. Moreover, when the real reason proves to be true, their status as a person who provides correct and useful information about surviving in the world had increased. Think of a jungle guide. He tells me not to eat a plant because it is poisonous and will make me throw up. Unfortunately, I had stupidly put one in my mouth a minute before. When I throw up as predicted, I have now elevated my opinion of my guide as a man who knows this world and is qualified to help me define it and survive in it in a real way. I can ask him any question and the likelihood that I will get a real answer is high. He is, by definition, a true guide.

To be told, "Don't ask questions" or "Just stay on the path I am defining for you" is not being a true guide and I am likely to come to harm, since my nature is to want to experience the world for myself.

This, I believe, is my innate problem with religion both as a solution for explaining the world and being a proper guide to follow. It is not an intolerance of a differing viewpoint, it is that it does not provide me with what I need to be healthy and enjoy the world I was born into.

I would love to have a great guidebook to life.

But it needs to be a good one.

Or it may lead me more astray than not having one at all.

Miracle Healing Anecdotes

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By Herb ~

Whenever people find out that I'm an atheist, they usually come up with a miraculous anecdote to try to convince me of the reality of Christianity. They often take the form of miraculous cancer cures. I heard one such anecdote today from a coworker.

He said his aunt had cancer. Radiation treatment was given to her. After so much time, it was determined that an operation was needed. A cat scan showed a black spot in her muscle tissue. After operating, it was found that there was bone deterioration near where the black spot had shown up on the cat scan, but there was no tumor, not even any scar tissue where a tumor had been. The coworker attributed this as a miracle cure brought about by the family's prayers. Of course, as in most of these cancer miracle cure anecdotes, the doctor was puzzled.

I'm not a medical expert by any means, but I believe that maybe the radiation treatments had cured the patient. I believe that all patients have varying degrees of healing abilities. This may have been the case with this patient which explains why she didn't have any scar tissue where the tumor had been. As far as the doctor's surprise? It could have been a rare case which he had not personally experienced before, but it didn't mean that it was a miracle.

A recurring theme in these miracle stories is that medical treatment almost always takes place. How often do we hear of cures that took place when no medical intervention took place? Also, if the patient and the family had enough faith, why didn't they just pray to God and not go to the doctor?

I would also wager that people in other religious traditions also have miracle healing anecdotes. How would a Christian explain those?

Anybody else have any natural explanation for what may have been the case in the above anecdote?

Beliefs Revisited

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By Carl S ~

And behold Adam begat a son which Eve delivered, and they called him Abel. And Abel came before his mother as a” youth and said, "The beasts of the gardens have each other to play with, but I have none. What shall I do?” and Eve said unto him, "Go therefore and play with yourself." And Abel went and played with himself and saw that it was good. . . Then Abel thought, "Surely, this is fun! Therefore the Lord will see what I am doing and will forbid it.” And the Lord did see, and forbade it.

cain and abel by Maurice Heerdink
Then Abel went to his father and saith," The Lord has said we should increase and multiply, and yet has not told us how. I want to fulfill his command." Adam saith,"Observe the bonobos and how they make babies, mating both male and female, and copy them." Cain, in a rage, sleweth his brother Abel, and took unto his own his sister to mate. From this genesis all human life on earth has issued forth. And behold the wisdom of the Lord in all these things!

When the 573 year old woman gave birth to her 26 pound baby (after her 600 year old husband built an ark the size of New Jersey), she told her lady friend, "Do you know what this means? By the time this kid's a teenager, I will be old enough to be her grandmother!"

A smoker told his friend that he read so many articles about the harmful effects of smoking that he gave up reading. Later that day, he repeated the same thing to his clergyman, who told him not to worry about any reaction to his statement: he had the same problem trying to make his flock understand theological matters. "And by the way," said his pastor, "Don't read anything by those atheists. They'll tell you that what you believe can be harmful."

The Reverend Tom McArdles of Shrovesport, Pa., testified to his and his wife's faith. When they got in the car to go to church, it would not start because the battery was dead. The Reverend looked at his wife and said, "Did not the Lord tell us that if we ask anything in his name, he will give it to us, and does he not assure us that he will raise the dead bodies to life, even eternal life, to those who believe in him? Surely, he who raises the dead will revive a dead battery." They then prayed, and the car started right up, and since that day, the dead battery has been dead no longer.

Those who are familiar with the "Frankenstein" tale know it is about reanimating a body created out of cadavers. However, there is a simpler formula for creating a living body: mix three parts yeast-free flour with one part water, roll it flat, cut it into a wafer thin disc. Bake in a 350 oven for thirty minutes. Take the disc to the nearest Catholic church and have the priest say a few words over it. A miracle! You will have a real, living, personal human who died 2000 years ago, in your hands.

How to have your cake and eat it too: Before aborting a fetus, inject water over it in the womb, and say the words of baptism at the same time. The aborted one will go straight to heaven. Guaranteed, with a stamp of approval by the Lord.

My neighbor's wife commented on how clever the squirrels were in getting birdseed out of "squirrel-proof" feeders. She said that her husband noticed how clever crows are in hiding and later relocating seeds that other crows saw them hide the first time around, and the way so many different animals deceive and even "play dead." Both of them thought that clever is survival, and that necessity is the mother of evolution. The Mrs. conjectured that clergy are very clever at camouflaging what their books say, distracting and lying for their survival. "Funny, isn't it," she said, "how animals imitate us?"

Interior memo from John Glenn Space Center, Cleveland Ohio, NASA: On the morning of Dec. 24, 2011, 06:23 a.m., Hubble Space Telescope detected three unidentifiable objects orbiting Planet THX1139. Later close up observations revealed a man in a long white robe, a woman dressed modestly in blue and white garb, and a man riding a chariot. Are still photos required for the media or Christians?

After watching the Discover Channel's special, "The Search for Noah's Ark,” Joel Dovecot posted a question on their website: "Why not a search for Cinderella's glass slipper?" Although the Ark has never been authentically found, sandals left at a shoe shop in ancient Jerusalem have been, along with a tooth extracted from St. Paul (found under a pillow in Tarsus). These matters remind me of a very serious book a man read to me about Christian times when a girl asked for some bones from her martyred virgin mother. Even now, body parts are venerated, and it's claimed there are enough pieces of wood from the True Cross in the world to build a cathedral.

"You are old, Father Ratzinger,"
The young man said,
"And your hair is incredibly white;
Yet superstitions flap 'round in your head.
Do you think, at your age, you're still right?"

Warning to reader: Do not read this in public, for you may be tempted by Satan to laugh. Further, the writer may be executed for posting these things, a.k.a., matters of serious faith. It wouldn't be the first time. In fact, it's history. But DO ENJOY. (Demon laughter.)

Disturbing "Christian" Childhood; Religion-Free Adulthood

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By Megizzle ~

My parents divorced when I was 5 and my brother was 1, and we moved from the country to the city with our mother while our father stayed behind. Our mother would tell you she was a Christian if you asked her, but we never went to church or talked about Jesus much. She worked two jobs and went to night school to learn to use computers, helped with homework, read us bedtime stories, patiently answered our endless questions, and encouraged us to read often and think independently.

Our dad, on the other hand, was a complete religious fanatic, control freak, and hypocrite. Every other weekend, he would make the 175-mile drive to the city to pick us up, and we'd be subjected to a 2 1/2-hour drive in his cramped little pickup truck with Christian rock music blasting at full volume while he blared his horn at slower-moving vehicles (saving his middle finger and his F*** YOUs for those who honked back), tailgated and swerved maniacally through traffic at top speed, and, on one unforgettable occasion, rolled down his window and pointed his handgun at a man who was committing the cardinal sin of doing 65 in the fast lane (this ultimately resulted in us telling our mother, and our dad spending a week in jail). During our drives, Dad would also frequently startle/scare us with sudden, random, painfully loud screams and war-whoops, which he attributed, wild-eyed, to his being "ON FIRE FOR THE LORD!" (My brother and I privately imitated and giggled helplessly over these ridiculous displays of religious fervor.)

Once we reached his little place in the country, we generally spent most of Saturday doing intensive Bible study (I knew who St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, and Martin Luther were before I hit third grade) followed by a rousing game of Bible Trivia (groan); the next day, we'd get up at the crack of dawn to get ready for church (which was *only* 40 miles away). We participated in Sunday school and Children's Bible Study, and went on church outings to "share the Gospel" with people in poor neighborhoods. We were always anxious about going to Dad's house, not only because of the long, traumatizing drive to and from, but also because he would frequently say frightening and/or inappropriate things for young children to hear, such as "Your mother is a wh***. She only lets you come with me so you won't see her having sex with all her boyfriends."; "You know that clicking sound you hear when you first pick up the phone? That's the FBI listening to our conversations."; and "Your mother worships Satan. I'll kill both of you if it means I keep her from dragging your souls to hell with her." Our mother unintentionally alarmed us further by (sensibly) requiring us to memorize her phone number and every address we moved to, so that if our father ever abducted us and we were able to get away, we could call her and/or provide the police with her contact
information so we could get home again.

After a few years of this, my father moved to the city (he returned to the country a couple of years later) and, unfortunately, played an even more actively religious role in our daily lives since we were physically closer to him. My mother encouraged me to join Girl Scouts when I was 7 or 8, even scraping together enough money (we lived well below the poverty line) to buy me a brand-new Brownie uniform, and I happily complied only to have my father use Christianity to ruin that for me. He was furious that our Brownie Troop met on Wednesday evenings (which were also our "extra" church nights), and forced me to leave the group by accusing the Girl Scouts of being a Satanic organization which was making me choose between God and The World by having their meetings on the same nights we were supposed to be in church.

When he moved back to the country, we were once again forced to endure the white-knuckle journey to and from his house. Bible studies intensified, and we bounced from church to church as he endlessly alienated entire congregations. Our dad was a loud, aggressive, burly, tattooed man with a ninth-grade education who had done hard drugs for most of his teenage years and hard manual labor for most of his life, so he intimidated and flat-out scared a lot of people. Once, my brother and I each invited a friend up for our weekend with Dad (naively assuming that he would be nicer in front of company and perhaps allow us to skip Bible study and/or church); on the contrary, he required EXTRA Bible study and insisted that our now-captive and reluctant audience join in, whereupon he expressed shock at their ignorance of the Bible and the great theologians, ordered them to give their lives to Jesus before they died and went to Hell, and pressured them to decide whether or not they believed in predestination and the post-tribulation rapture. On the way to church the next day, he further alarmed them (and humiliated us) by cautioning them to watch out for black helicopters because they were using infrared technology to spy on us, and detailing how Bill Clinton was having people murdered in the White House. Obviously, that was the first and last time our friends accompanied us to visit our dad.

As I grew older, I began to pick fights with Dad (over the phone) so I'd have justification for refusing to go with him on his court-appointed weekends. My quieter and more easygoing brother was still obligated to go, and on one occasion this resulted in a phone call from him to tell me that Dad had captured a rat on a glue board in his kitchen and spent fifteen minutes shooting it with blowdarts before taking it outside, shooting it, and taking pictures of it. My mother and I were both horrified and furious, and it was several months before my brother made the trip up there again.

Despite my Dad's best efforts to show us that Christians were scary, paranoid people who should be confined to rubber rooms, I genuinely believed in the Bible and often read it in my spare time. One night when I was 16, I was sitting alone at my little desk in my room and reading the book of John. Suddenly my independent, reasoning mind started waking up. I had a QUESTION. Uneasily, I called Dad. He might be nuts, but he knew the Bible like the back of his hand. "Dad, Jesus said 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me.' But He also said the Jews were His chosen people, and Jews don't believe in Jesus. So do Jews go to Heaven or Hell?" Dad hemmed and hawwed, he mumbled various vaguely-pertinent Bible verses, he hesitated and false-started a few times, and then launched into some story from the Bible that had nothing to do with my question. I chalked it up to "He doesn't know." After I got off the phone, I went back to my Bible and realized I had ANOTHER question! I called Dad back. "Dad, if belief in Jesus is the only way to Heaven, what happens to people in remote parts of the world who have lived for generations without even knowing that an 'outside world' existed, and have never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel? Do they die and go to Hell just because they were born into the wrong place?" Dad did some more hemming and hawwing, and then had an epiphany. He answered, "Well, they can still look around at the sun and moon and stars and trees and animals and think 'Some power greater than myself must have put all this here', and then choose to honor and respect the Creator of nature. Then God can work on their hearts so that they will be true Christians in His eyes." You know how, when you hear the truth, it just rings true in your ears and you recognize it for what it is? That's how I felt when he said the first sentence (not the second one). I was delighted/surprised but also puzzled, and asked "Well, couldn't everyone just do that?" He responded that Christians are instructed by Jesus to spread the Gospel. I said that didn't make any sense; why should we bend over backwards to tell everyone something they can all figure out for themselves? He said it was because we needed to tell them the Truth before they were led astray by false religions like Islam. I thought for a minute, then hesitatingly observed that everyone thinks their religion is the correct one, and asked how we could be sure that ours was right and theirs was wrong? He explained that we know ours is right because we have God's Word right there in our Bible; I rebutted by saying that they think they have Allah's Word in their Quran too. Dad started getting agitated in that way that religious people do when you start asking questions, and asked if I was turning into an atheist. I quickly reassured him that I was not, and the conversation ended there on an awkward note.

I spent the next few years telling myself that my questions were the result of inadequate faith on my part, and tried to squelch and ignore my growing doubts. When I was 19, I met a remarkably intelligent and articulate 20-year-old fellow college student with whom I shared a love of reading, learning, integrity, and intellectual debate...and excellent sexual chemistry. We began dating, but the relationship was kept secret from my father's side of the family because he was black. I had never dated outside my race before (I had barely dated even within my race because I simply wasn't particularly attracted to anyone and was a bit of an intellectual elitist), but I didn't think it was strange or unusual, although I was aware that my father hated black people (and Hispanics, and Asians, and women, and Muslims, and Buddhists, and Catholics, and foreigners, and democrats, and the elderly, and everyone else who wasn't a middle-aged conservative white Protestant male from the southern United States). We each recognized a kindred spirit in the other and spent every waking moment together when we weren't at work or school, arguing race relations, politics, religion, and foreign policy (and doing other things, of course!), and ultimately fell very much in love. Six months after we began dating, we moved into an apartment together (as far as my father knew, I was just getting my own place).

In an attempt to appease my Christian-upbringing-induced guilt over my very active sex life outside of marriage, I joined a church and began semi-regularly attending services there. The pastor and his wife invited me to their house for dinner, as was their custom with all new attendees, and both were impressed with my Biblical knowledge and theological awareness; I was repeatedly invited back for dinner and Bible-based discussion, and became something of a family friend. I was flattered by the attention and conveniently failed to mention my ongoing sexual indiscretion, although I felt increasingly like a hypocritical, lying fraud for the year or so that this went on. Then I got pregnant.

When I admitted the pregnancy to the pastor and his wife, they were upset. When they met my boyfriend, they were horrified (the whole interracial thing). They privately urged me to give the baby up for adoption and abandon the relationship, which I refused to do. Neither they nor my other church "friends" ever spoke to me again, and I stopped attending church altogether. I knew I was wrong for having lied to them, but I felt angry, hurt, and betrayed that *Christians* would drop me like a hot potato for not living the perfect Christian life. How unChristian of them. I finally began allowing my religious questions and doubts to rise to the surface, and discussed them with my boyfriend, who understood the difficulty I was facing in beginning to work against my brainwashing; he patiently encouraged me to use logic and reason to determine the truth for myself. (He was two steps ahead of me in the religion department, although I wasn't aware of this at the time; he let me figure out what I thought for myself before telling me about his own journey to similar conclusions.)

Ironically and completely unexpectedly, my dad was elated to find out he was going to be a grandfather. He wasn't even fazed when I told him who the father was (they had met once, but I had introduced my boyfriend as "my friend", and they had gotten along surprisingly well) and was utterly shocked that I thought he was a racist, which he adamantly denied being. I later figured out that, with my dad, it's nothing personal; he's just one of those people who hates everyone equally.

Shortly after our the birth of our daughter, I found out I was pregnant again, despite my faithful use of birth control. When our first child was 13 months old, our son was born. We moved into a larger apartment and I halfheartedly attended another church with a friend a couple of times, but finally had to admit to myself that I wasn't buying it anymore. I went home, looked myself in the eye in the mirror, took a deep breath, and thought (I was too nervous to say it aloud, as though I might be struck by lightning for my insolence) "I'm not a Christian anymore. I don't believe that everything the Bible says is true. I don't know if Jesus ever existed or not. Religion is a tool used to control people. I'm not a Christian anymore." If you were brainwashed from birth to believe that Christianity is the only right way to live and that to deviate is to die spiritually, then you know how hard it was to overcome that programming and dare to think what I thought. I never went back to church again, and I've never missed it.

We went on to have two more daughters, and sometimes (particularly after I get off the phone with my dad) I look at my beautiful, intelligent, happy (when they're not fighting over some stupid toy) children and am silently grateful that I "woke up" before I inflicted another senseless religious brainwashing on a new generation. They will never have to suppress their natural curiosity or shut their perfectly functioning minds down in order to accept ancient Middle-Eastern fairy tales as their basis for how to order their lives. No one will dangle the threat of hellfire and eternal damnation over them in order to frighten them into compliance with an outdated mythology. Their parents are both back in college (after several years' hiatus spent trying to cope with the sudden influx of children); their mother is working on a Bachelor's in Biotechnology (despite their grandfather's advice to "Be careful about gettin' too educated; it'll turn you into a damn lib'ral atheist."); their father is preparing to enter the Master's program as an MIS major. They're growing up in a household full of books about science and business and technology, and developing a healthy thirst for knowledge and understanding instead of an irrational fear of a vengeful, bloodthirsty god who hates women, gay people, and questions. I don't mind them learning about various religions, including Christianity, as long as they understand that different people believe different things, that it's up to them to decide what they believe, if anything, and that no one will ever force them to accept any belief system against their will. I'm so glad I "got out." Also, to my everlasting delight, I discovered just last year that my brother (who spent three years in the Navy and now lives in Hawaii) has also been questioning religion and is now at the phase where he clearly doesn't believe in Christianity anymore but is reluctant to say it aloud for the same reasons most of us are afraid to. So I'm not the only one breaking free!

The only problem is that I still can't bring myself to admit to my family that I don't believe what they want/expect me to believe. My father has mellowed considerably in recent years; our relationship has greatly improved and I've forgiven most of the insanity with which he generously peppered my childhood, so you'd think he'd seem more approachable to me than he once did, and you'd be right.

However, he still has the soul of the religious fanatic and the black-and-white worldview that will tolerate no shades of gray, making his stability questionable. In spite of everything, I do love my Dad, and I'm especially close to my grandparents (his parents). What if I tell them that I'm not a Christian anymore and they sever ties with me? (Or, perhaps worse, engage in endless and fruitless efforts to convert me back?) In my family, it could easily be THAT big of a deal. My brother hasn't told them yet either, but he's never been very family-oriented and is not nearly as close to our relatives as I am, so I think the lack of emotional investment on his part would make any excommunication by our family ineffective. For me, it would be very upsetting, even devastating.

I've been postponing telling them for years now, but I'm afraid I'm about to reach the point where I'll have to. They (my dad in particular) are bringing up the kids' religious education more and more, especially around religious holidays. For instance, my mother (who has gotten slightly more religious over the years) called on Easter morning a few months back to wish me a Happy Easter. "Have you told the kids about the true meaning of Easter? Jesus died for us on the cross and rose again from the dead to ascend to heaven. Today is a holy day. It's not all about colorful eggs and chocolate and candy, you know." (Me, rolling my eyes and thinking "To me it is!") Later, my father called and demanded to know whether the kids have a Children's Bible. I answered yes, although I didn't tell him it's in a box in the back of my closet and that I have no intention of unpacking it. He told me I needed to give it to my oldest daughter to read, and mentioned that he's "going to start really working with them to teach them about Jesus." I thought, "The hell you are!" but compromised aloud by promising him that the kids would certainly know about the Creator (and they will, as soon as they can look around at the sun and moon and stars and trees and animals and know...). Thankfully, my dad has a short attention span, so I can just - Hey look, a squirrel! - and he forgets what he was talking about, but I can't change the subject forever and I don't want to keep being such a coward. I'm a grown woman for heaven's sake; I shouldn't be so scared to tell my family. Not sure what to do at this point.

Anyway, in the unlikely event that someone is still reading after all this time, I sincerely apologize for the length and detail, but it feels better to get everything off my chest, even if no one ever reads it. I love reading the other stories on this site; although I'm not an atheist like many people on here (I consider myself a Deist), I definitely sympathize with the atheist perspective and can certainly relate to the Christian brainwashing, de-conversion experience, and familial troubles I see being shared, and it's encouraging to be reminded that I'm not the only one struggling away from lies and toward the truth.

My Declaration of Independence

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By nomoregodplease ~

I lost my faith when God wouldn't take away my pain. I was in physical agony and he just left me there to suffer. I couldn't believe in a God who hated me so much that he would just ignore me like that. That feeling was cemented when the Catholic hospital I'd been staying in refused to treat me - the only medication that cures my condition is birth control.

And just like that, it was all over.

This idea of a man on a cloud judging me, hating me, punishing me... It didn't make sense anymore. I figured that if God is truly like that, then I didn't want to know him.

I'm not an atheist, not yet anyway, but the Christian god is dead to me.

I gave up on the church (though not god) a long time ago. Christians were just too much for me. So judgmental, hypocritical, spiteful and nasty. I couldn't stand them forcing their beliefs down my throat.

Same goes for atheists. I was sick of seeing atheists attack believers, doing the same thing as Christians in the name of "opening their eyes" and "trying to save them".

Zealous Christians and zealous atheists are two peas in the same pod to me, trying to make everyone see things their way.

But I'll tell you the truth, I feel lost without my faith. Not that I'd ever go back to it. I'd rather be lost and know the truth (that whatever god is, if there is such a thing, it's unlikely to be what Christians say it is) than lie to myself for some false feeling of security.

It's difficult to know where to turn. Another religion perhaps? Maybe Buddhism... I hear they don't have a god, and I don't want a god anymore. Not a god as careless and as cruel as the one I'm used to, anyway.

The overwhelming feeling that I have is that I just want the truth, whatever that is. If the Christians are right after all, and God is an angry man who loves plagues and turning people into salt (how come people don't get turned to salt anymore?) then I want to know that. If God is a flying fruit salad, then I want to know that. If god doesn't exist, then I want to know that.

But how does one go about finding that truth? Wasn't that what Christianity was supposed to provide me with? A path to the truth, and eternal happiness and salvation? Christianity just took me on a journey of guilt, unworthiness and confusion.

Christianity gave me hope that not only were there answers, but a clear path to discovering them.

Now that I've found that it was all a lie, I don't know what to do.

Now that I've found that it was all a lie, I don't know what to do.
I do know that I can't go back to praying to a god that doesn't care about me, that ignores me, that gives people nothing other than steadfast belief in their own awfulness and an excuse to commit horrid crimes against humanity,

So many terrible acts are committed in the name of god.

So, now I'm lost, as I'm sure many people are after losing religion.

But I feel free. And I've never felt free before. I hear that people who spend most of their lives in jail don't know how to function in the real world and go crazy.

I wonder if I'll be able to handle my new found freedom?

Especially when the idea of hell keeps coming back to haunt me. I'm going to hell for leaving, I'm going to hell for asking questions, I'm going to hell because I want god to be more than man.

As a Christian (not a very good Christian) I'd be going to hell anyway, so it doesn't really matter if I question my beliefs or not, but in the face of such brainwashing, it offers little consolation.

It's not easy to lose one's faith. It's a real struggle, actually, and I commend those that have been able to cut ties with their false ideas about god. I'd love to be able to do the same.

Anyway, whatever the truth is, however I'm supposed to find it, if it's even possible to, I hope that putting myself in the position of being open to it, whatever it is, is a step in the right direction. I have no way to confirm that, but even when I prayed to God for guidance he didn't give me any, so nothing has really changed there.

I guess the only thing I know for sure is that Christianity offers me nothing, and that it seems to cause more harm in the world than good.

That's more truth than I've been aware of my entire life and it's a start.

True Freedom

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By Strong Enough Now ~

My childhood in the 1950s-1960s was spent in a very rural, very poor area. We had no running water or phone, we didn’t get a TV until the 1960s. My parents were very uneducated as children of the Depression-- my mother made it through the eighth grade, my father only the third grade. My mother was raised on ‘fire and brimstone’ as a Southern Baptist. My father’s family were all members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and religion had been drilled into my siblings and myself since birth.

As I child, I was exposed to and practiced some of both religions. We knocked doors and had more than a few slammed in our face. We had to go and witness, my father insisted and I hated every second of it. (To this day, I maintain it is child abuse.) But, in addition, I attended different churches with relatives and neighbors, my mother wanted me to explore religion. The religions my relatives and parents friends attended were as crazy as my parents’ religions. Among other things like scary 'Going to hell' revivals and Bible school, I did get to see a female ‘holy roller’ performing what I now understand was a sexual act with the floor. Who else other than a child of religious people can claim that as part of their childhood?

Most of the kids I went to school with were Baptists, so it was easier to fit in under my mother’s religion. We had prayer in public school then, before school, before lunch and before going home. What I remember about school prayers were that kids were busy punching each other while we bowed our little heads. Not one of us understood a bit of the rote we were taught to pray. When Madalyn Murray O’Hair’s lawsuit caused the ceasing of the dull school prayers in the early 1960s, all of the parents were furious that kids could no longer pray in schools. That woman was Satan! We kids were just thrilled we didn’t have to do that rote crap any more.

There is one thing the Jehovah’s Witnesses taught me at a very young age, that took. Not the way they wanted, but it took. They encouraged the study and questioning of all other religions and how they were formed. Of course, they used their religion to compare, to try to show why they, and they only, had the academic key to the ‘word of God.’ Problem is, when you start teaching kids to think, sometimes they don’t stop.

By the my teen years, I had concluded that there was no God. My sister was married to an extremely abusive Baptist and he eventually murdered her and another sister when I was 15. My extremely religious father had insisted that she stay in the marriage and try to make it work, and my other sister was there to help; that Christian act got her murdered. I hated God as much as I hated my father for making me participate in religion. I really did.

But, when you are in the middle of a picture, you cannot see the frame. Everyone, and I do mean every other human that I knew, was religious. I thought I was a failure and didn't get it. I thought everyone was praying all the time and, looking back now, I realize that my parents were more concerned about getting food than going to heaven. I didn’t realize my mother had doubts, too; she just went along because she did not know how to research her questions. So she lived in that place where women were all seemingly delegated--’no questions’ land. I was well over 21 before I met anyone who openly didn’t believe in God and/or Jesus. I had heard of evolution, but our school did not teach it. Parents didn’t want their kids exposed to such stuff. We did have a library, and at 15, I read I knew in my heart that religion was practicing nothing about nothing for nothing. But a 15 year old girl living in poverty has extremely limited life choices. I had to do what was required of me. I was so confused.

Eventually, I got sucked back in to religion. I was not strong enough to know that I could and SHOULD think for myself. By the time I was seventeen, I was getting married to a nice boy from a religious (Baptist) family. Life lay before me, I was told anything was possible with God. I so wanted to believe it to be true.

But seventeen year old's have no business seriously dating, much less getting married. The marriage did exactly what one would expect: It fell apart. I was definitely guilty in ending it, I was so sick of being the only adult in the marriage. (It didn’t occur to me then, but we were both children.) Of course, everyone flocked to defend my (now) ex-husband. How could I leave such a fine Christian man? My own father never forgave me, he was still a dedicated God believer til the day he died. My ex husband was one of his pall bearers. (I could, in my mind, hear the church ladies saying: "Obviously, we know who was the black sheep of that family....")

My ex-spouse was actually was a decent man and eventually a good father. But it was not real, it wasn't my truth and I knew in my gut I was lying to myself and to him. I would always be miserable if I stayed; I was going to be trapped in a nightmare of never ending church services and numerous children and pot luck suppers and I knew I had to revolt. I was lucky enough to go to work during the women’s liberation era; I had a career and was making enough to support my daughter and myself. Why did I need an extra weight around my neck at age 23? I decided I didn’t and I ended a supposedly good Christian marriage from a good Christian home. It was like I finally came up for air. Until the Christians descended on me, with their guilt and 'you didn't live up to God's expectations' and Pray, pray, pray! I had gotten stronger, just not enough to make them go away, then.

A friend kept dragging me back to church. (If there were a God, that girl should have the best karma around. But she doesn’t and I digress....) I went to church more and more often. It was comfortable to hang around other confused and miserable people, in a weird sort of way. They separated us by age and divorced or not. Divorced people were not mixed with the never married singles at the huge church. I went there for years and never met any of the 'pure' singles. I knew that was wrong, but I was not strong enough to fight it then. I just knew that I was always a member of the ‘used’ group, and I carried a lot of guilt dumping what everyone told me was 'a perfectly good marriage.'

As many of you know, breaking away from religion indoctrination is a long, difficult process. The obvious act of just quitting going to church doesn’t work if you have been indoctrinated about God since birth. Quitting the actual church turned out to be easy. I knew I was over as soon as I heard the minister say: “God doesn’t hear the prayers of Jews.” The whole country got in an uproar, I finally realized that it was OK not to believe the preacher, it was OK to think, it was OK just to live. I never went back.

Later, I realized that I was very angry because the church had made me part of the Scarlet Letter metaphor. How dare they judge me like that! Because it was a social outlet, I missed my friends from church. But they wouldn't budge out and I wouldn't go back. The dogma was still smothering me so I fell back to an old standby: books. I started reading. Scholarly religious works (thank you Jehovah's Witnesses, you actually saved me in a way you will never understand although I tried to tell the guy on my porch the other day) became my forte. At last, I truly understood how religion had been put together and why and concluded that I had been had. I understood--finally--why I was angry at religion and its liars.

Now as I sit on the cusp of my golden years at 60, I realize I am stronger and I am a free thinker because I was miserable with church. I would never have questioned anything if I hadn't been put through so much religion. I love science and the potential of discovery of how it all really came together. Studying the cosmos or possible parallel universes is much more thrilling and real than any Bible verse, quote, sermon, or testimony I ever heard or read. Even with all the bad, I can now say I have a wonderful life simply because I learned to question. And I question everything.

Never accept anyone else's dogma. Never accept anything as true just because someone says it is so--even that statement! And, finally, the most important, that took a long time to discover: “Everything in this book may be wrong.”I know in my mind and heart that I was misled, because my parents and their parents and their parents before them had all been misled because they could not read. When she got very old, I realized that my mother doubted, and always had--but she ran into the same brick wall of everyone else she knew was in religion. But I had an advantage my mother or any other ancestor never did: I could read and had access to all the books I wanted. I view it as my responsibility to let new generations know it is not only OK, but it is required that you think and study life and find out why we are here for yourself.

Never accept anyone else's dogma. Never accept anything as true just because someone says it is so--even that statement! And, finally, the most important, that took a long time to discover: “Everything in this book may be wrong.” Perhaps my truth is not your truth. But I know this, I found my truth, and I will not rest until I am sure my granddaughter can find hers.

There is a big secret that no religion will tell you: Living without religion is freedom. Freedom from fear, freedom from hell, freedom from heaven, freedom on earth. Freedom to think, freedom to explore, freedom to live, freedom to have simple pleasures such as a glass of fine wine. And in complete opposition to my early teachings: The freedom to live an outstanding, law abiding life and pay your taxes and not go to church because it is the right thing to do, not because you are afraid of a God you will never see, hear or touch. It is also freedom not to show reverence to a God that supposedly blesses America, because we are richer ergo better than everyone else. No religion means no limits on thought. Freedom from religion expands the world to help us understand a far greater connection to all other beings than any religion ever offered. After all this experience, I cannot imagine how any God could have gave us a greater gift than the ability to reason that there is no God at all. That is my truth and the purest freedom I have ever known.

This is my story, this is my song

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By an Ex-Evangelical ~

I have waited for a long time to share this with someone. For some time, the anger and rage that I hold can be let go of. I am a human being, ready to free her mind of religious lies and brainwash. A wild bird, finally free of her cage. This is my story, this is my song.

Both of my parents were born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi. In the deep south, church is a fundamental part of life. My family lives, sleeps, and breathes church. It's a way of life. My mother is the most dedicated person to "faith" that I know. I would never try to show her she's wrong because, well, I don't think she'd survive it. She is a wonderful mother and I love her for that. My father, however, is a joke of a man, that about sums him up.

When my family moved to Baltimore, we continued "church life" but it was different than southern baptist churches. We started going to non-denominational churches, evangelical churches, and the DC Del Marva region "Church of God" churches. The perception of God had always fascinated me, I was a very curious child. By senior year of high school, I was a bible thumping, church living, brainwashed teenager. I was dating the pastors son and was convinced we'd be married and soon run our 2000+ member church. I was the poster child for Christianity. Believing I had special gifts and the ability to talk with God in my mind. I'm a singer, which the church took advantage of. Telling me if I didn't use it for god, he would take it away. I learned to pity the non-believer, when in actuality all we did was judge non-believers because we were jealous, not because we really cared. I quit my "secular" job and began working for the church I had attended since eight years old. I was there seven days a week, usually all day, without being payed for most lunch breaks(illegal much?). I was told anything that did not glorify god did not deserve our attention and could allow the devil into our hearts. I cut off long friendships, music that didn't worship god, and TV among other things. I spent hours studying the Illuminati and the Occult, convinced that our government, artists, and actors were devil worshipers. I lived in a bubble. A bubble in my church. I was in charge of the youth praise team, was a youth leader, the summer camp supervisor, and gave extra tithe money every Sunday.

Even in all of this my life was no better than before I became a christian. If anything, I worried more, judged more, and spoke more negatively. I realized how little I truly mattered in that church, since every time I tried to leave, or could not attend an event, or help out with one, I was scorned or looked down on. Anytime I tried to ask for help or needed support for personal issues, I was told to "die to self, pick up your cross, and just pray!" So I prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed some more. I prayed for healing from sicknesses, that never got answered. I never once saw a miracle. This upset me because, I genuinely, truly, yearned for gods love. All I wanted was his love, so I was obedient, yet he never answered my prayers. Something was up...and quickly I became bitter. The pastors son was the most immature man I had ever met, much less been in a relationship with. He judged me and treated me like an object, not a person. He broke up with me because I wouldn't kiss him! I laugh about it now, but at the time, everyone knew, and our friends made it a huge deal. He was arrogant, shallow, and stereotypical to "the bad guy". All of this because his father was the celebrity and he had been sheltered.

Soon I left, slowly, I stopped attending services, I quit a youth pastor internship where the rules were: no dating, passwords to Facebook and phone must be given if asked for, text messages could be read, and permission must be granted before planning any event outside of church (i.e. movies, dinner with friends, vacation). The person who led this was my "mentor". Ever since childhood I've struggled with authority from men, because of a horrible relationship with my own father. Whatever a man said, I did. He told me college was useless in ministry. There was no point in going. So I graduated high school with no intention for a degree.

I feel free and alive, not having to wonder if some deity is watching me and judging me.Thankfully after leaving, I now work and attend college, I have a loving home with my amazing boyfriend who is the most supportive person I have. He was not raised in any religion, and his family has been extremely accepting of me. They are quite the opposite of my southern religious family. He along with his friends and family are happy, life loving atheists, and I am so glad I have them.

Some days are better than others, some days I am thrilled with my new beginning. I feel free and alive, not having to wonder if some deity is watching me and judging me. I can relax and slow down, not thinking that this is the "end times". I feel at peace because I control my future, not a contradictory god. Other days, I feel guilty and ashamed for leaving the church, and some where there is a god planning my fate. Some days I cannot fathom how there is no god. It's all I've ever known(I've been out only for 6 months now) there are days when I want to do nothing, I am depressed because I feel like my whole life was a lie. I can't even enjoy time with my mother, who was my best friend, because she is so religious. I've considered therapy to help cleanse my mind of this bullshit.

One of my favorite quotes, I think describes me perfectly at this point in life(I have a way to go, I'm only 19!)
"But you're not naturally austere anymore than I am not naturally vicious. I can see in you the glance of a curious sort of bird, through the close-set bars of a cage. A vivid, restless captive. Were it but free, it would soar cloud-high." -Mr. Edward Fairfax Rochester from the movie Jane Eyre.

So this is my story, and my song, I cant wait for life after all of this suffering. I am the one who is born again, born into reality, after putting to death my fairy tale.

Introducing Myself

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By dswrites ~

Hello, all. This is Daniel Sanchez (a long-time friend of Jason Blue's and author of the post "The 'A' Word"). I just wanted to introduce myself. I would never enter a room in real life and just start talking without permission or invite, and certainly didn't want to do it here. So let me introduce myself.

English: Bexar County Courthouse, San Antonio,...
English: Bexar County Courthouse, San Antonio, Texas (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
I am 44 years old, husband to a wonderful wife who shares my non-theist outlook, father to two girls: a college sophomore studying psychology at Loyola University and a thirteen year-old who is, well, busy being thirteen. My heritage is Spanish. My ancestors came from Madrid and settled in Bexar county (San Antonio) Texas. My "inheritance," if you can call it that, it that I am the first-born male of a Baptist preaching family. My father is a professor of missions at a seminary. My brother is a missionary. My grandfather pastored a church for most of his life. My uncles are pastors. My great-grandfather was a pastor. You get the picture.

I was born in Panama in 1968 in the middle of a civil war. I was held at gunpoint when I was 2 days old. When I was 4, my baby sister was diagnosed with Leukemia. We moved to the States (Atlanta, Georgia specifically) to seek medical aid. She died in my mother's arms. My sister was 2. I was 5.

I am divorced. The product of an unfaithful wife whom I was with for 14 years. My relationship with my older daughter is strong. The younger one is very much like her mother. I have married into 2 sons - one a 23-yr old former Marine with a son of his own and a lovely girlfriend, the other a 21 yr-old college student who is all about the girls and not so much the studying. The younger lives with his dad, the older lives with us.

I have been a "doubter" since childhood, and a "Super-Secret Doubter" since my teen years, when it was made clear to me that questions made most of the people in my life uncomfortable at best and desperately worried for my eternal soul at worst. I never received any satisfactory answers about my sister's death and God's role in it. I decided it was better to believe there was no God than to believe there was one who would do that on purpose. Paraphrasing every mother's edict, since I "Couldn't say anything nice about God, I shouldn't say anything at all."

I became a decent actor concerning this topic, capable of leading prayers, smiling at the right moments, etc. Later in life I became a real actor (briefly). Eventually, I found it hard to play roles that weren't me. The irony of that did not escape me. So I turned my creative side to communication, writing, and design. My current wife loves that part of me and I am one of the truly fortunate who gets daily support for everything I do.

I may never tell my parents about my beliefs. They certainly suspect, but we have never discussed it. My father is in his mid-70's. He is in excellent health, but I don't want him to spend his last 15+ years on this Earth locked in debate and worry over my soul. For her part, my mother would take it as a personal rejection of her beliefs and not a fitting response for her having brought me into this world. She would feel she already lost one child, but "at least she's in Heaven." To lose another and have him burn in Hell is not an option.

I once tried to talk to my father. I was 15. We were working on the car together. I asked him, "If God told you to kill me - would you?" He hesitated a lonnnnnnnng time, and it sincerely scared me. I don't remember his answer. It was half "Don't worry, that would never happen," and half "Well, son, some stories are more for teaching, you can't take the whole thing as fact..." I just remember he was as scared about telling me an answer as I was about hearing one. Both of us didn't want it to be the wrong one. The truth was - there was no good answer. It's either disloyal for him or horrifying for me. The thought that he could hear a voice in his head and take it seriously stayed with me for quite some time.

If he went through with it - what kind of a sadistic God would require that? Oh, yeah. The one that killed my sister. HIM.

If he didn't go through with it - he's defying a direct command from a God who hasn't spoken to anyone for thousands fo years and chose him. Beyond that, he's defying his whole life, everything he believes in, everything he taught us, everything he taught anyone ever, everything he was ever taught by his father...he's saying you can disobey God if you don't agree with Him.

It was theological checkmate.

Looking back, I think I was just hoping for some kind of reassurance. That my world was secure and my father's love was secure. I wanted to feel safe. I think that's what a lot of us want. To feel safe, so that then we can go out and do the things that need to be done in the rest of our lives. That's not an unreasonable request.

So I think a lot about how I can be a benefit to the world in a real way. A tangible way. What I can do for The Good. That much of my upbringing is very much a part of me, and I am grateful to my family for that. I value kindness. I am interested in your life, especially if you are very different from me. I let others finish their sentences when they talk, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in every situation.

That's my introduction. That's who I am. I hope I can make a positive contribution to the group here. I'm glad to meet you all.

And I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

I don't know what to believe at this point

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By a confused ex-Apostolic ~

My husband and I have recently left the Apostolic Pentecostal church. My husband had been a member of this church since birth, but never truly understood or believed what he had been taught his entire life. He just knew he wasn't allowed to do anything as a child, no movies, no sports, they couldn't even go to Pizza Hut because they started serving beer. His mother went through phases depending on what church they were attending at the time...one year they would have a tv, and the next year they wouldn't.

Long story short, when we met, his mother pounced on me! I was so in love with my husband that I was willing to convert to anything to be with him. His mother knew this and immediately "converted" me into the Apostolic Pentecostal religion. For the first few years it was the most amazing feeling I had ever experienced! The welcome feeling from the church members, the feeling of belonging to a loving and caring church family. I loved it! However, when I began to question why we weren't allowed to do certain things and asked for biblical proof explaining these rules, I never received a decent response...or any response for that matter.

Extremely long story short...we left the church about 3 years ago after several fights with my mother in law who is the worst example of what the bible describes as a 'Christian", and after finding out some things that had happened amongst church members while we attended the church. When we decided to leave, our so-called friends never spoke to us again except to try to persuade us to come back.

Since leaving, I can see that the church is the cause of my kid's behavioral issues and their complete lack of value in their education. It has been very difficult to try to fix what the Apostolic church has destroyed. I was only a member for 6 years, but it was the biggest mistake of my life. I'm so thankful that we came to our senses and left the church before it was too late for my kids to enjoy their childhood.

I don't necessarily consider myself an ex-Christian, more of a confused ex-Apostolic. I don't know what to believe at this point, and I blame it on the Apostolic church 100%.

An Open Letter from a Lost Sheep

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By Andrea ~

Yesterday I read an article about why younger people,and people in general, are leaving the church.I saw it on Facebook from some Christians I used to go to church with(they were sharing the link) I had one of those moments where you're awkwardly staring at the screen..wanting to find whoever wrote that and talk some sense into them.I don't know who wrote it but I'm not surprised.It seems to be this weird attitude that a lot of people in the church have about ''lost sheep.'' .I don't know those kind of people anymore.I'm so far removed from the church world.But they sure seem to think they know a lot about ''my type''! In case any of them drop by here ( and since they think they know so much about me) to see what ''lost sheep'' are up to ....here is my open letter to them.

Dear Christians of the World,

I've seen your articles...you've been worried about losing people in general,but mostly it seems to be young people .You seem to be noticing a drop of people around ages twenty to thirty.Since I'm the perfect example, of the type of person you're talking about...I'm going to tell the world what the problem REALLY is.You're trying to figure it out but,as someone who has been there,I'm telling you why you're missing something.I was raised in christian church and left when I was nineteen years old.I was also home schooled and went to a christian home-school group. I've had a full dose of your world..and maybe a little more,so I know I had enough experience to say ''This is not right.''

You might expect that this will be the part where I go into how awful the church was and how everyone was mean and uptight. I've seen in some of these article where you say ''People in church are too uptight and young people don't like it.'' You seem to think I left because everyone acted like an uptight, strict Amish person.As if it was just too much. But that's not really what contributed to me leaving.Yes there were some uptight people. but the majority were pretty laid back for religious people.And that's just the problem...no matter how much you try to make it a friendly atmosphere it will always seem too uptight.Your version of ''laid back'' is not comforting at all.What's laid back about everyone getting in line to drink grape juice, and talking about how it represents being a sinner who needs to be covered in blood?What's laid back about the fact that, no matter what I do, it's not enough and I still need this blood sacrifice to cover me?So yes. you actually do have some nice laid back people...but that isn't enough to make the church feel like a ''safe place.''

You've also mentioned things being outdated in the church,and that it makes my ''technology loving generation'' back away.You seem to think that if you can only make the church look like an Apple store..I'll come running back to be a member again.That's somewhat true...I'm twenty two years old and I would rather be buying something on Itunes than reading a Bible.But let me tell you...it doesn't matter if you buy Ipads for everyone in your young adult group or buy them new Iphones to take on a mission trip.There is and always will be an outdated feeling in the atmosphere of a church who follows Bible teaching.I'm still going to be reading about ideas that just don't work in the modern world.If I read about why woman should stay silent in church...how will reading that on an Ipad make it any more ''modern''?

Do you realize that you are reading a book from a time when woman were stoned to death for being pregnant outside of marriage?Sexuality is a huge problem within the church.You mention that you need to offer better solutions to this problem. That if you could somehow make christian sexuality more relatable, and less judgmental, that more young people would stick with the plan. I sat in one your Bible studies, and witnessed you trying to do this.You told me that saving sex for marriage wasn't easy but I could do it with God's help.You didn't judge me..and I thank you for that...but you also didn't offer a solution.I can't fault you for that though..because there is no solution when it comes to your teaching.Say I have a long time boyfriend.We've been together for ten years but don't want to marry until I'm older.I'm sorry but there is no ''softer'' way to to teach me that I still can't have sex with him.There is no reason why you HAVE to be married first and everyone in the modern world knows that.Overall the problem with the sexuality is that your holy book is always demanding it be changed.Ask any gay/lesbian person out there will tell you that prayer doesn't change them..and they are fine and happy as they are. As long as you try to fix what doesn't need to be fixed there will be problems.

It's been mentioned also that a boring setting may drive people away.Oh yes...you're right about that.Maybe you're planning to ditch the youth room and build a giant amusement park outside.Sure..maybe a roller coaster would wake me up a little bit more than a mundane get together with hot dogs and water balloon games.(and yes that is a little childish at eighteen) Save your money though...I can deal with a crowded class room,or a mundane game,if something exciting is being taught. But as far as I've seen...nothing exciting was going on in there.I thought meeting your God(yes a GOD!) was going to be a thrill.Or at least a little...interesting.I was always learning about what he did,or was going to do,but he never actually seemed to be there in THAT time.Oh I tried to ''meet him'' ....I really did.And I really wanted to!I didn't mean to end up always feel like I was sitting in a boring setting where I was singing worship songs to no one...but I did.Don't even worry about your building ...if I can't find your God then you could meet in a palace of crystal and it would still be lacking everything.You insist he's there...well he hasn't shown me that.

Lastly...please stop acting like certain parts of your Bible don't exist.That's really really annoying.I think it's why you lose intelligent people.Most atheists I've come across are careful in looking for the truth and if you tell them ''Umm no sorry I don't read that half of the Bible.I don't know what your talking about'' it won't help anything.You've just shown intelligent people that you have no clue what you're talking about.But,like other problems,I can't totally blame you for this.If someone brings up a gruesome Old Testament story about infants being slaughtered at God's order...what you are really going to say?There isn't anything to say is there?Yes people have problems with accepting a horror scene as truth...but as long as you follow the Bible...I don't think there is any solution to it.It presents it as truth so,as a christian,you are also forced to represent that to the world.There is no way to make a story about God drowning everyone more ''presentable'' to the world.

So what am I getting at here?Do you see it now?Do you see the pattern in all these problems?I understand your effort to make church a good place,cause I was there once.But if you're holding onto a dead horse..nothing is ever going be right. The problem is THE BIBLE.The teachings don't help anyone or offer anything(except what I found to be an empty promise).What me,and a lot of other people,are finding out is that it's a dead book with God who isn't living .The best thing to do is stop chasing after people my age and go do something more worth your time.And I know that would be a shock for any christian to hear.But once you let it sink... in it starts to feel right.Life isn't so bad elsewhere.I'm not crying! I'm trying to stay open minded but I can tell you...in my own life I see no sign of your God chasing after me. I was seeking..but I didn't find.Lots of people seek but don't find.So my question to all this is...if your God isn't chasing after people my age...why are you?Think about it...and maybe one day you won't all feel the need for a christian church anymore.

Sincerely,

A Lost Sheep

Reclaimers

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By Marlene Winell ~

OK, I think we can acknowledge we have a subculture now – a group of people who were once religious but have left and are reclaiming their lives. This group is special and identifiable. It’s not just exChristian; it’s exMormon, exMuslim, ex-Jehovah-Witness, ex-cult, and ex-authoritarian. But we need a name. I believe the terms that refer back to religious worldviews are inadequate, such as unbelievers, deconverted, and apostates. If we were to go that route, hell, we could have a sense of humor and call ourselves the Damned. But I’d rather not give the old frame of reference any power.

Other possible labels are free-thinkers, atheists, agnostics, humanists, brights, naturalists, and others. However these refer to large numbers of people, many of whom have no experience with religion. These groups might share some values with us and even some distaste of religion but do not have personal knowledge of what it is like to believe and then lose faith.

The name I suggest is “Reclaimers.” For some time, I have been learning about and working with people who have left restrictive religions and who are recovering from the effects of indoctrination. We’ve called the process “release and reclaim,” which means letting go of toxic doctrines and reclaiming one’s life. It turns out there is a lot of reclaiming to do. Beyond the healing of damage done, people emerging from the cocoon of repressive religion have to reclaim their identities, their right to think for themselves, their ability to trust their own feelings, and to have pleasure in their present life. They need to reclaim their sexuality, their creativity, their own idea of spirituality, and much more.

Particular groups have special issues and different theologies, but reclaimers understand each other in a basic and deep way. We have all had our humanity denied and truth withheld. We have had our sense of reality shaken to the core and we have had to rebuild, coping with ruptures in our families and risks of “coming out.” We share the need for support and we recognize in each other the exciting signs of coming to life. We know how to grieve together and how to celebrate together. We understand the fear and the rage as well as the courage and unstoppable drive to forge a new, self-chosen path.

In addition, we are unlike those who were spared indoctrination in that we can look back and understand the experience of being immersed and vulnerable in a belief system and thus have compassion for those still trapped. As such we can help the unchurched appreciate the powerful emotional manipulations involved. We can advocate for health and educational services beyond the usual civil rights issues because we understand the abuse. Essentially we are able to provide two ironically contrasting sensitivities. Because we were once believers, we can help to explain the mindset instead of writing religious people off as crazy or stupid, and at the same time, we can alert our society about the true consequences of authoritarian religion, especially the trauma inflicted on children.

We are a very special group. We can help each other on our road of recovery and we can make unique contributions in the world. We can decide that we will no longer let religion block our human development – as persons or as a human family. We are Reclaimers.

Are Mormon Underwear Kinky Between the Sheets?

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By Valerie Tarico ~

Mormon underwear  or "garments"- Two pieceTo outsiders there is little more fascinating about the Mormon religion than the underwear that Mormon temple initiates are expected to wear day and night. As one former believer put it, “I've been an exmo since 1967. All that time, the underwear questions were the first ones I got from people who found out I had been Mormon. A friend brought it up again last week at lunch.” Another former Mormon agrees: “When people first find out I'm exmo, their first question/comment almost ALWAYS is, ‘So what is the deal with the magic underwear?!’ Honest! People outside the morg are spending WAY too much time thinking about garmies!” (DC)

(“Garmies” is insider slang for the sacred undergarments prescribed by the religion’s founder, Joseph Smith.)

Some outside interest may be driven simply by curiosity: Mormons have sacred underwear! What do they look like? Or incredulity: Religious leaders can tell women to wear undershirts with special symbols all the time beneath their bras and people do it?! But that’s not the whole story.

When we began to just lay together, skin to skin, and talk to each other; to feel each other’s pulse and breath; to simply feel our physical selves, our body-shame began to dissipate.The idea of special underwear seems a little kinky, at least to some outsiders. Commenters on blogs and forums confess the attraction. “I tell you guys who grew up taking "undergarments" for granted- WE in the not-know find these items fetching indeed [Here in Idaho].” (Kymba) “Mine had been in the bottom of my closet in a moving box, in a paper bag for 5 years until a couple weekends ago when I modeled them for my boyfriend, he was intrigued by the whole thing and found them to be very sexy.” (Randy) It only makes sense that some subset of us would find the idea of Mormon undies titillating. They are novel, they are hidden, they are taboo, and they are in constant contact with genitalia.

But are they kinky to insiders?

It’s hard to get a balanced sample from active Mormons, because the Garments, as I said, are sacred, and catering to the curiosity of prurient outsiders would violate a covenant sworn during the same temple ceremony in which a Mormon gets authorized to wear the Garment. Unfortunately those who have been fantasizing about a romp in which layers of white cotton create the perfect sense of mystery (or bondage), exMormons offer few words of encouragement. Discomfort seems to be the predominant theme.

I was continuously battling wedgies--often in public; how the people would stare as I would try to wrestle crumpled material out of my crack. Lady DB

If you have ever worn the modern ones you should appreciate the distance these have come. When I first got married they came in a one piece get up with a wide neck so you could step into them. The back had a split crotch (not the kind in kinky panties) but this huge wide sloppy split that would separate under your clothes, leaving a draft in your nether region much of the time. The little panel they sew into the ladies special part was so poorly designed that it would roll and twist till you felt like you were skewered by a roll of old toilet paper. Insanad

Of all of the things about Mo-dom, the thing I miss the least is the underwear. Zapotec

Theologically, Mormon undergarments are said to be symbols of a covenant between God and the believer. Historically, initiates pantomime their own death should they violate this sacred trust. The underwear have sacred symbols drawn from the Masonic Order into which Joseph Smith was initiated shortly before he proclaimed God’s desire that people wear the Garment. Devout Mormons avoid allowing Garments to touch the ground. They may cut off and burn the symbols when a Garment itself is worn out.

I thought the kitchen was on fire a few times until I found my mom burning the "sacred symbols" in tin cans before she cut the underwear into dust cloths. I was slapped a time or two for letting them fall or drag on the floor when I did laundry as a child. Cheryl

In Mormon folk religion, Garments have special powers. Stories are told of wearers being saved from bullets or fiery death in a car crash. One story tells of a Mormon soldier during WWII who was killed by a Japanese flame thrower – but his Garment survived intact. The stories go back to Joseph Smith himself, who died in a hail of bullets without his Garment on. His companion, Willard Richards, who was wearing his, emerged unscathed. Mormon historian Hubert Bancroft described the incident in his 1890 History of Utah, “This Garment protects from disease, and even death, for the bullet of an enemy will not penetrate it. The Prophet Joseph carelessly left off this Garment on the day of his death, and had he not done so, he would have escaped unharmed.”

Today such accounts are not investigated or endorsed by the church authorities. The Catholic hierarchy has an established procedure for assessing claims about weeping statues or a miracles cures, but the Mormon hierarchy largely ignores stories about the real world protective powers of the white underwear. In 1988, Mormon authorities asserted that the Garment serves as a protection “against temptation and evil.” Unfortunately, ordinary believers may take the broader protective power of their Garments seriously, sometimes with painful consequences.

Flame swept up my arm and no clothing burned at all except the entire sleeve and part of the shoulder of the Garment that burned/melted. I was burned where the material melted into globules. I was a good person. They did not work as claimed. I will never ever forget that day. AmIDarkNow

My TBM (True Believing Mormon) father was a radiologist and believed that his garmies would protect him from radiation. Needless to say, the bonehead died of leukemia at 49. Jeebus

Taking off the Garments is a big step for many people leaving the Mormon religion. Some people feel vulnerable when they first abandon the white regulation underclothes.

Well, I still remember the first time I took them off. Half wondered if I was going to die in a car wreck. nonyabiz

I was on the look out for the death from no garmies too for a bit!! Oh good Lord! makesmyheadspin

But others experience a sense of freedom:

I cannot believe I let another grown man ask my wife and I what kind of underwear we were wearing and volunteer the information with a cheery smile. What was even more sick is that I believed in a tyrannical God that cared about what kind of underwear I was wearing. Mortimer

My hubby and I were cooking on the grill in the back yard. All of a sudden the wind changed, a flame leaped out of the grill and came straight at my chest. I looked down and saw it hit my shirt and chest, then arch away from me, back in the direction it came from. I looked down, my plastic buttons weren't melted and the shirt wasn't singed at all. I automatically thought in my old morg ways, "my Garments must have protected me!". THEN....I pulled my shirt collar forward and looked down my shirt... I couldn't stop laughing!! I had no Garments on!! This was soooo refreshing and invigorating! I had been "protected" and I had no Garments on!! Kathy S

Sometimes the heart of that newfound freedom is freedom to explore sexuality or intimacy.

When we began to just lay together, skin to skin, and talk to each other; to feel each other’s pulse and breath; to simply feel our physical selves, our body-shame began to dissipate. Waking Up

I remember when I first quit wearing my Garments and how feminine I felt. WOW, actually had breasts and a waist. It was very liberating and for the first time in my life I began to feel sexual, not a droid without any sexuality. And even though I didn't fit the, what I perceived as the ideal, weight, shape, looks, I felt sexy and powerful. anonymous

Mormon underwear or "garments" - one pieceThis is not to say that Mormon Garments have no place in the history or future of erotica. You say tomayto, I say tomaaahhhto. Interestingly, the Garment may owe its existence to Joseph Smith wrestling with his own libido. As recent research on homosexuality suggests, people who are struggling to contain or suppress their own sexuality may be particularly interested in controlling the sexuality of others. Historians are unclear on the number of women Smith actually married and the number with which he simply had sexual relationships. The list of his wives, first published in the late 19th century, and still debated, includes 27 names. Despite this, Smith preached against polygamy till his death. Was the design of the Garment (then a full body long-sleeved button-up affair) the product of a divine revelation, Smith’s sexual tastes, or his effort to suppress desire? Maybe a better question is what it means to you.

God Condemns Himself

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By Brian Kellogg ~

Let's take a look at the Abraham Isaac fiasco. If we were to judge this event by new testament standards Abraham would be guilty of human sacrifice. Jesus tells us that if we just consider committing a sin in our mind we are guilty of it (Mat 5:28). Unfulfilled intention is as damnable as the intent fulfilling outward act itself. So, in short, we have god tempting Abraham causing Abraham to commit human sacrifice. Whether Abraham actually followed through on his intent to perform the heinous act motivated by god of sacrificing his son Isaac doesn't matter according to Jesus who is proclaimed the son of and equal to god in the new testament.

English: Abraham embraces his son Isaac after ...
English: Abraham embraces his son Isaac after receiving him back from God (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Now, the christian god does not change (Mal 3:6). Therefore what learn of god in the NT must also be true of him in the OT. As we have already seen, unfulfilled intention is as damnable as the intent fulfilling outward act itself (Mat 5:28; 1Jo 3:15). The christian god also decrees that human sacrifice is evil (Deut 12:31, 18:10; 2Ki 21:6). The bible says the christian god cannot be tempted by evil nor does he tempt anyone with evil (James 1:13). By the christian god's own inspired words he judges himself guilty of tempting Abraham to commit a vile sin and thereby is complicit in Abraham's sin of sacrificing his son Isaac.

Does the christian god stand self condemned? The only way to partially wiggle out of this textual conundrum, in my humble opinion, is to admit the obvious, that the bible is not infallible. Careful though as once you start out on this road paved by intellectual reprobates its a slippery slope all the way down to delusion free thought.
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